Difference between revisions of "Talk:Vianitá"
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== ritual ==
== ritual ==
=== sacrifices ===
=== sacrifices ===
Latest revision as of 16:11, 23 May 2020
Almost two thousand years — and not a single new god!
at its core, a form of fire worship wherein all deities are recognized to be one deity, and that worthy of worship as both terrific power and deadly foe at same time is...fire. pyrolatry
"(beings) men behind the sun" (name of gods), belonging to the category of the Semones (Semos, a relation of rhomos?) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sancus
- 1 rename
- 2 some notes to incorporate
- 3 national mythologies as reference
- 4 gods to add
- 5 interesting concept
- 6 "philosophy"
- 7 holidays
- 8 aspects of early religion
- 9 statuary
- 10 human sacrifice
- 11 prayers
- 12 curses
- 13 symbols
- 14 holy sites
- 15 scholars
- 16 temples
- 17 myths
- 18 Religious
- 19 saints
- 20 god concept
- 21 temporians
- 22 heroes?
- 23 calendar
- 24 proselytizing
- 25 divination
- 26 sun worship
- 27 death and burial
- 28 ritual
- 29 soul
- 30 archaeology
- 31 priest vianism
camarem - chamber
fersu - mask
leine "at the age of"
sh(i)ans "beginning, scheme, plan"
hintha (hinth(i)u) "to cease, to finish" ("(was) finished")
thesan "dawn, sunrise, morning"
?-ism (time) religion itself is considered the worship of time, that is the worship of the "mental organization" of space into something humans can understand. in other words, the worship is of the fundamental faculty for structuring the universe into something digestible for the human species. otherwise the world simply "is". what is is the "be"; what humans imagine is "the god" (creative faculty- hence god is always the "creator"; and the only creator men know are themselves), mistaken so often in history as man himself (even if created in imitation of a man: e.g. olympians, jesus).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contumacy stubbornness or refusal to appear before written law
regardless, worshippers tend to assume the existence of a singular god, but do not necessarily associate god with aspects of a character, avatar or personality. Rather they envisage God as an impersonal theoretical absolute (platonic form?), who can be worshipped only in part (or in a human form).
religious symbols for vianita....something to work on:
--chullachaqui 20:10, 22 June 2016 (EDT)
some notes to incorporate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iguvine_Tables http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iguvium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitoline_Triad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyaus_Pitar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regia
also look into joseph campbell writings.
see effatio above it as well
an email discussion to incorporate
Oh, I see. I forewent the idea that the military isn't involved. In that case, agreed, especially if they have enough to last. I didn't realize the war would be so current... but if the war will be going on now, all today's technology would be part of Faeland then... and people love their stuff.. will be an intense battle. On 11/12/2015 4:03 PM, Faelan Blair wrote: > For sure there will be death. What happens after is unknown. I mean, the way Im gonna write it, it would be going on now, not in the past. The leaders of the movement or whatever it is will have some ideas but yeah, I am curious too.. I have some ideas but it's all pretty nebulous right now. > > Is what an "inside the country" concept? The luddite thing? Yes. And as I wrote, the military proper isnt involved in the fight. In any case their use of outdated weapons is risky sure, but not really an impossibility. The great thing about simple weapons is their widespread availability and easy maintenance. And in a defensive war, all a native population has to do is continue the fight, not win. Look at Vietnam... Afghanistan..Ireland....etc. > > I just liked the old technology of the ship. In that kind of sailing, everything works by nothing other than friction. Ropes held by their own friction. It's really amazing. Anyway I got the idea for freezing because I thought it would bhe great to have a fleet of those ships. Many countries still have a sailing vessel or two in their fleets for training purposes. And for a small nation a huge gas-guzzling navy isnt realistic anyway. > > On 11/12/2015 15:36, Suzanne Lehman wrote: >> I don't know your people, but to revert as far back as the Sentinelese would likely require a lot of death during the civil war. I'm curious about what would happen after the civil war, how life would be... commune, isolation, farmers, the options are endless. >> >> Wouldn't using bolt action rifles instead of assault weapons be detrimental to your defense? I see the whole leading by example idea but it seems risky. Especially if the enemy is using assault rifles. Wait, are there enemies or is this solely an "inside the country" concept. >> >> I'm not sure what you do on a ship... how did serving on a sailing ship spark the freezing idea? >> >> On 11/12/2015 2:51 PM, Faelan Blair wrote: >>> People can congregate in temples and the like, and there are traditional ceremonies and such. But there is no regular sabbath day like in judeo-christian faiths. Also, there is a christian denomination native to the country, and other denominations are present as well. speaking of churches... >>> >>> But mostly the practice of the religion is a family affair, conducted in the household. What social and communal aspects the religion had in previous centuries have been sort of dissociated to the various temples and priestly orders. >>> >>> -- >>> There is technology there of course. And money. But the fight that develops will spawn a movement to somehow roll back those things. How that plays out I don't know yet. I don't think it'll be as far as Sentinelese but...maybe? >>> >>> As for the military, it exists exclusively as a defense force. I have actually toyed with the idea of "freezing" some of the units at certain technological levels. Like having the navy operate under sail, or riflemen use bolt action rifles instead of assault weapons. Sort of intended as a deterrent to hostilities by demonstrating an unwillingness to become as deadly as everyone else. But also I guess maybe to parody war? Or turn it into an honorific thing...like those tribes in Africa that would only have ceremonial wars. Anyway I served on a sailing ship once and it was like a living museum. I got the idea then to "freeze" the military to affect such a situation. Havent fleshed it out yet, still working out how it would be. >>> >>> That being said the fight between the natives and the incoming Americans would be fought by non-national agents. That is to say militias, paramilitary or partisan groups. No state or national level armies would be involved in the conflict as I see it playing out. >>> >>> On 11/12/2015 13:40, Suzanne Lehman wrote: >>>> So there is a church? or a home base for the people to congregate? Regardless, a worshiper must have a place to go where he can seek the priest. >>>> Hah, a Luddite crusade against the Americans. Was there no technology (or limited amount of technology) and money before the Americans? Without modern technology, would your people be living in a type of Stone Age or maybe go so far as to live like the Sentinelese people? >>>> If Faeland is neutral, and enough to not have its military properly tested in war, what is its purpose? That'd be going off the assumption that your military would made useful in acts other than war. >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2015 12:53 PM, Faelan Blair wrote: >>>>> Rabbis or monks is a perfect analogy. >>>>> >>>>> In the cases of deities or cults with priestly colleges, yes, they (the priests) determine based on tradition. This is the so-called Temple Vianism. But you can think of this as a rather non-personal aspect of the religion. That is to say that most of what is pure and impure for a ritual applies to the priests in the conduct of their ceremonies. It wouldn't be the case that say, a priest of Osxu would go around telling adherents they were pure or not. It's up to the worshiper to prepare oneself for worship or ceremony. >>>>> >>>>> There is modern technology and money, yes. But I'm working on an article about a third civil war to address the possible abolition of those two things through some sort of Luddite crusade by the locals against American colonists. But of course these two groups are allegories for the concepts. I don't particularly hate Americans or anything like that...however the American system of empire uses money more so than military, so it is convenient for the storyline. As for technology, well, I have other sources to draw on for that bit. But I digress.. >>>>> >>>>> On 11/12/2015 12:27, Suzanne Lehman wrote: >>>>>> I envision the priests to be like rabbis or Buddhist monks. >>>>>> The deity/cult determines the graveness of an act? Or is the determination more diplomatic? >>>>>> Purity and impurity seem ambiguous, and subjective. >>>>>> "Engaging with artificiality" seems very Emerson/Thoreau-esque. >>>>>> And distract from the universal will also, I'm guessing. >>>>>> But there is modern technology/money, etc. in Faeland from what I've read, so this religion teaches to use it but not become engrossed by it? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/12/2015 11:55 AM, Faelan Blair wrote: >>>>>>> Hmmm. Well, there are priests, but it is useful to consider them analogous to a monk or something like that. Or in a mystic religion you have varying levels of initiates, with access to sacred knowledge or "consciousness". But in a lot of ways the priest class could be seen more like devotees of a particular deity. Again, sort of like monks. The system is an inverse of the typical priestly role in western culture since the Protestant era: whereas Christian ministers or what have you are supposed to "care for the flock", the Vian priestly class have a responsibility to a deity that manifests itself either in maintaining a temple to carry out sacred rites or adding to the scholarship of a particular body of sacred literature, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's a good question about what counts as impure. And, yes, I would say the weight is on intentions, and even then, the intent can be malicious so long as it is honest. As for what makes one impure...I suppose I hadn't got so far as to determine what acts and so on make people impure (and in any case, those things would depend on the particular deity or cult which has its own set of circumscriptions on that sort of thing). I guess the genesis of the impurity concept lies in the fact that there certainly IS a concept of purity within the religion which has most to do with being cleaned by immersion in earthly things. For example, bathing in the ocean using sand and the salt water only to clean oneself would be ritual purification. So yeah, it implies there can be impurity...but exactly how I'd define that I'm not positive. The first thing that comes to mind is engaging with artificiality: e.g. things created by humans rather than things provided by nature - and undue concern for said things. Money, entertainment, etc. Not because those things are bad per se, but because they distract and take humans out of a system that is appropriate to them, more healthy for them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/12/2015 11:37, Suzanne Lehman wrote: >>>>>>>> So if there are no priests or representatives, the beliefs are individual.. >>>>>>>> I'll stay abstract with the planes. >>>>>>>> I see what you mean about the murder and theft. What act would make someone ritually impure? Seems like there's more weight on intentions rather than the actual acts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/12/2015 9:56 AM, Faelan Blair wrote: >>>>>>>>> Easiest way to explain universal will would be your "best fit" for the universe. Purpose, yeah. Suppose... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for sensing other dimensions, sure...I guess some people can. But there's no order of priests or anything like that, who act as mediaries. I thin when I wrote it it was supposed to be simply understood that those planes exist. Concrete or otherwise. Notice it's in the cosmology section...just part of core beliefs >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No murder and theft wouldnt make one ritually impure. Unless the acts were done impurely. I haven't fleshed out that section very much....as you can see >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2015 18:33, Suzanne Lehman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Not Abruzzo related, but I have some questions (surprise, surprise) about Vianism: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "The goal of Vianism is to continually draw nearer to understanding the "'universal will.'" Does "universal will" here mean purpose? As in the purpose of the whole? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm also struggling to grasp everything in the cosmology section... certain people can "sense" the other dimensions? or travel to them? They're concrete planes, yes? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Would "certain deeds [that] create a kind of ritual impurity" be acts like murder or theft? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2015 4:40 PM, Faelan Blair wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> That's my country's religion article. You should read it. It's not about Abruzzo, unfortunately. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2015 16:31, Suzanne Lehman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The most fascinating coincidence I've laid my eyes on. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2015 4:27 PM, Faelan Blair wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Instance of image on wikipedia (upper left) article for Abruzzo region: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abruzzo#History >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And apparently I copied the image with the cross photoshopped out: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://vvikipedia.co/index.php?title=Vianita#Types_of_Vianism
national mythologies as reference
--chullachaqui 16:44, 28 May 2016 (EDT)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanches (religion is of note)
Impressive inspiration for my own work, should read all this section: https://web.archive.org/web/20090201042737/http://bergonia.org/Rel/Religion.htm
gods to add
n.b. should move this whole thing to a pantheon page or gods of faeland or deities of faeland or whatever.
from Commonplace vi, thurs apr 11 1041: Cultural note, in a temple of the geminate/liminal or threshhold deity (sic., should be deities), represented as two clasped hands. (etymological root for wall or boundary as wall in Old Faelish. —thus distinguishing between the wall as seperator, mür, and wall as commonality, ___ —. Not prone to anthropoform deities normally, on occasion the faels might illuminate a "sea-person" (i.e. non-islander) by way of just such a graphic illustration. in this case twin deities hold hands thus creating a semi-impermeable barrier, but also thereby demonstrating a sacred trust implicit in the mutual respect inherent in the creators of (believiers in) the accepted boundary. That is the spiritual polar equator.
- XINALEIT - "smoke wreaths fire" "flame-eyes smoke-hair" or Chinaleight goddes name is fire that sees. Her ceremonies performed with a different version of the mirror fire. Instead of debater her fire is the ring around central hole which is filled with a black liquid in. Which is placed a concave bowl. But around the fire are stones which glow green when heated. fingers and arms turn into branches/leaves // her elderly form with gray hair?
[14:12, 2/1/2018] like as the divine xinaleit: she can possess a spider by occupying the eyes and control their hydraulic legs... when she descends to earth to interact with mortals
gods heart a burning torch. in his veins runs fire not blood
XINALEIT goddes name is fire that sees. Her ceremonies performed with a different version of the mirror fire. Instead of debater her fire is the ring around central hole which is filled with a black liquid in. Which is placed a concave bowl. But around the fire are stones which glow green when heated.
"mountain washer)" rain god
this whole article is good but here specifically are some nice ideas:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_Empire#Deities --chullachaqui 13:39, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
the wolf-sun (a god)
- CERNAT - akin to rhomos.... perhaps related, a brother
- RHOMOS - god of formations, creation, mountains, sources of water, god of the rhomines/rhomines numen
- QARNA something shufrantei arrives on western shores?? - (anglicized Karina)
- Xanhet (god). - music
- XXXXX (http://quals241768.tumblr.com/post/149327692956) underworld god
- XHALINA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonantzin - one of two supreme female deities in the local religion. She was worshipped as a goddess of fresh water and fertility; she is the female entity who represents the Earth Spirit and the Spirit of all horizontal water: lakes, streams, the sea, and the marine tides. She was one of the most important for the native tribes and then kingdoms that inhabited the Vincennes Basin of the south, mostly in the Ligustino valley, the cordillera and along the south facing mtns of Colhani Mtns. Xhalina defines prime matter and all that is tangible or material and has several manifestations. One is the aforementioned nurturing maternal figure. Another is _____: the spirit of love. The last is ____ : the violent, Wild Mother of storms volcanoes, earthquakes, and lust.
- XÅVHRIL fate, chance, springs, vegetation, sex/reproduction, cruelty (anglicized Gabriela), uncertainty, doubt, cowardice/fear - chaos. it should be noted that the moral attachment to the preceding attributes (uncertainty, doubt, fear, chaos) do not apply to the Faelish interpretation of this goddess. In many respects attributes such as these are viewed neutrally as powers that be, neither pleasing nor offending. If anything, the nouns mentioned, chance, spring, vegetation are all viewed in a positive light. and it is telling about the faelish interpretation of the world that they (the attributes) are considered the seedbed for growth. in her sense as chaos she is understood to be the final result of blossoming, growth, and eventual saturation, in which one eventually vanishes into the void and becomes one with it (death). Whereas attributes of a war god: valor, strength, sovereignty, etc...are seen to be denials of death, vain attempts to "delay" something that can never be. taking life, as it were, hostage against the prospect of death. a non-embracement of death. this also explains one of the names for christianity in old fealish, "death worship"...in the sense that emphasis was placed not here, but after... in a posited next world, understood as separate and stratified from this one. which traditionally faelish cosmology roundly rejects. To Faels, the world is, and there is no separation from it, death or otherwise. --chullachaqui 10:09, 25 July 2016 (EDT)
and his diamond clubbed heracles version:
coca cola is god of omnipresence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adonis chief god?
the returning god of the east... from Rome: covered in blood (wine) because he is decadent. he is pulled by wolves in a chariot??
work on some vian deities. etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate main god worshipped at pentapolis....
(make sure to ad to that section as well a reference to the importance of this deity
a college of virgin priests. not women but men. for it was seen as wasteful to not allow women to live fully. whereas men are simple vessels for seed, and therefore are wisely stockpiled.
Osxu Cernat Tonans Xinaleit Xåvhril Rhomos
opposing triads of gods
one for them one for us
may be a little too "neo-pagan"
should be modeled on my sisters, perhaps with mythical children of their own. a cult originating in the visentine tribes and absorbed into the vallo-roman culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Days_in_New_Crete this one is particularly well-suited for me, and therefore depressing. it basically creates a god structure ive been trying to craft. kind of annoying to, once again, be beaten to the punch.
time travelling trio of gods
Martí, Eini, Shonash
As for the Church, I cannot conceive anything better for the culture of a country than the presence in it of a body of men whose duty it is to believe in the supernatural, to perform daily miracles, and to keep alive that mythopoeic faculty which is so essential for the imagination.
-Wilde, Decay of Lying
good for a parallax view on the conditions of modern life:
applying luthers 95 theses to corporate-government oppression in modern life?
as a full way of life
aspects of early religion
living sacrifice ?
May the earth cover your tomb with thorns, o X,
and may your shadow thirst for ever. And may the Manes not sit beside your ashes
and the avenger terrify your filthy bones with his hungry dog's cry.
May your grave be an old amphora with a broken neck
and may everyone pelt that grave with sharpened stones
if you blasphemously challenge the fire of the God
and may you always be cursed.
always has been the dominant style of vian construction on the islands
gods created mountains with the chop of their hands
- Seawolf and Mermaid
a creation myth that suggests a previous technological civilization.
more for creation story:
it is also supposed that the nation arose out of a sliver of condominium:
creation of the word
origins in the slur
special note to distributor bar.
look also at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phototypesetting for interaction of light into the entire process which is essentially output/input. O/I. between humans. and naturally, in this communicative industry, a special language and set of skills are necessary to keep this [riestly class in communion with each other. or moontonous, like monks, at machines. slaves. ref. also the fragment on machines (notes) pictured right and also in c-III-1918.104.22.168.2013.
also foundation for a new partition of governmental power into "justice" "defense" and the "living" but bound in 3-way centrifuge... held together only by...each other. triune
in faelish called:
Enri/Inri (from ancient Alan Enarei) meaning "priest" - but their role is quintessentially faelish. they are more akin to monks or acolytes than points of convergence of the spiritual and temporal. not considered conduits of the divine nor ministers of sacraments. they do assist the lay believers and lead them in worship but typically have no formal status or larger corporation to which they belong. they make no state within a state, beyond temple orders or monastic groups.
ascetics and monastics
funny how all this shit drifted west from the east. from india.
Lycurgus as source for teaching. Monastic military orders?
^Maybe belongs in christism
vestments or other articles
called "Ascthe" (pl)
Destiny always seems decades away, but suddenly it's not decades away; it's right now. But maybe destiny is always right now, right here, right this very instant, maybe. - Fradhr Selif Dexhim
Gods go by many names and appearances to make sure they maintain an optimal number of believers.
might need to tie in with zoroastrianism as well.
perhaps einstein himself is a prophet.
vessels /avatars / representations on earth / manifestations
medieval knighthood formed to confront the nantes crusade? an early coalition of native nobles, eventually taking refuge in mountains, retreating deeper and deeper into the hinterlands, settling eventually NW of current location of l'arginteau
not sure they belong here but we'll sort it out
see here for modern version and then work backward to establish traditional:
this was here or noted somewhere, necromancy...cloud divining. find it
death and burial
both inhumation and creamtion were practiced. cremation was introduced by the romans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaft_Graves in conjunction with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menhir make the burial appear like a growing tree, looking like a spear stuck in the earth. Man as roots, spear as representation of him in this world...a tombstone, if you like but not intended to offer information on the deceased, only to represent him as a "new growth" on the island.
Menhir in Faeland were called Firhen (VEE-ren)....literally "men", due to the spears representing a fallen warrior
stone wombs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chullpa
see about inland empire of lakes, where this practice originated:
Around the west and southern and northern coasts, cremation and "viking funerals". Toward the interior creamtion was also practiced but more often burial in tombs.
votive offerings ^^
soul is understood to be not one thing but two things. together they are soul, separate, not. they fuse and generate life, and after death are discrete again
faelish term: navin - a spirit wrongly taken from the body due to clerical errors, but therefore permitted to stay outside afterlife and roam freely. typically happens because after cremation, bodies and souls cannot be reunited
had its origins as an alnian royal household religion, and then during nantes crusade expanded into a "national church" type institution. a role it still has to this day